I came upon this quote a few years ago, and this is my absolute favorite in the programming world. Re TFA: All it means is that the Rails community is more superficial. Programming Languages. If nobody complains about your language, nobody uses it. You can have new articles delivered to your inbox. Python allows you to chain the comparison operations. Great article... and so true. ----func2(5, a+b, extra=extra). Otherwise when you change the implementation, you will have a huge refactoring task in front of you. I don't hate python or anyone who uses it. Fuck "style". than does Python. From my perspective, I'd rather code in a language such as Python instead of a language with an unsound type system. Easy to Learn: Python is an easy language to master. That's an interesting point. Absolutely. Loved your article, and I concur python is a beautiful language but it pales in comparison to ruby in design department. The Python blog designs are uninspiring and unpolished, while the Ruby designs are striking. It is unprofessional and sloppy to be so ugly. The main reason why people don't like Python is because they didn't give it an honest try. But Python resources are ugly enough to affect … But when it comes to the actual computing that happens down under, there's really no difference. When I say "interface" here I am talking about the user interface. In contrast, the Ruby on Rails homepage does a good job of introducing people to Rails and pointing them to different areas of the site. For others, I really don't want to touch it. Why importing star is a bad idea in python. A lot of things can go horribly wrong, and a great level of discipline is required to make the most out of it.". As a python developer I take exception to the idea that poorly designed front ends are in any way connected to the back end language. I do agree that the migration to Python 3 was completely mishandled. So, you ask, how can I hate Python if I don't know how to write a single line of it? And developers can become extremely religious. SEE: Ten things people want to know about Python for more details. And yes, in many cases you have some kind of deployment, but it need not be complicated, that shouldn't significantly impact how you think about the architecture. There is no commonly agreed upon theory of why this has happened. I bucked that trend. While it'spossible to criticize that these guides are not exact, every ranking showsPython as a top programming language within the top ten, if not the top fiveof all languages. while True: # statement(s) if not condition: break We've all heard it before: Python is slow. REALLY? Take VB.NET, verbose and made by a very large, very rich, very professional company. C++ is a danger to that maxim. Somewhere in that timeline Python came out and every time I looked at it, I wanted to read the philosophy behind it because it looked like such a step backward. Nobody wants to hire someone who builds ugly web apps. Easy to master? Site design, so it is and needs fix. Programming language hate is often pretty shallow. perfectly legal python (try it! Perhaps our entire approach for teaching programming needs updated so that the chosen language is less of a big deal. puts("Hello World") It doesn’t require a big team. I've been using it very effectively as my primary language for over 20 years. Sure it's compiled to bytecode, but that's a hidden caching operation that you usually don't need to think about. Robust Standard Library. I've got some side projects in Rust and Scala but I don't know if I will ever find a job in these languages. Python, being a tool, makes different tradeoffs from other available tools. People keep chugging along with these tools because they're ultimately useful. Hi ntlarson, As insane as the JavaScript ecosystem is, I really love the ease of using npm or yarn and a package.json to manage and install dependencies. Python scripts are a terse computer program, Ruby scripts are a concise design document. Strongly typed, elegantly laid out, (fiercely) object oriented. (In C. And Bourne Shell. I don't know. Also, importing modules from different directories is much more troublesome in Python than in JavaScript, where you can just give the file path. Python users often abbreviate unnecessarily, making it hard to know exactly what modules you’re including. The front end is then responsible for the layout and style thereby creating the user experience via HTML, JavaScript, and CSS. Thanks for the link. Rather with python think of command line things, think of easy interaction with openCV, or think of easy integration with scientific modules. Anecdotally, at least, nearly all the designers/UX people I know who've decided to learn the development side of things have gone to Railsbridge workshops (or similar) and learned Rails. You are pointing to the old rails 2.3 documentation, this is the one you should have used: I find the ruby ones ugly. is perfectly legal ruby (again, try it!). People only complain about the languages we use. It's comical how ugly and poorly documented Rails is. Cool, trick, obfuscated solutions waste time and money. Automation, and small things that should just make life more pleasant. Its better than a great static type system, better than automated testing, better than object-oriented, functional, or any paradigm one can imagine. =P I am not saying its not worth discussing why the number of python sites are seemingly more poorly designed, only that the discussion is better framed around teaching/encouraging good design principles. It undermines all their hard work and they believe makes them less valuable. I haven't written this many for-loops since my BASIC days. you are absolutely right, I have just noticed a general lack of enthusiasm and happened to mention in reply to your comment, which was not hateful. Hmm, yeah usually you want to avoid downcasting at all costs (most Java devs consider it a code smell). If that is so important, then how is python so successful? My only saving grace is that I continue to recruit new undergrads every year, and they are able to "fix" the code.... that quarter. Python 3.5+ supports type hints, but that's only for your linter (and other static code analyzers) versus not having it compile. But I find it cumbersome for larger projects. I can only imagine that it's the demographics of who learns the languages. Boring, like the other religions. I worry about people picking up bad habits/not ever learning what is going on under the hood of their Python program, but I worry even more about people giving up on learning to program altogether. I don't get that there's that same sense of excitement in being a Python web developer as there is in developing with RoR. Your point still stands though. ego's don't like it when something hard is made accessible and easier for a more inclusive community of people. If you are referring to frameworks and the interfaces thereof (i.e. It's gibberish. "What I generally dislike is the way Python handles libraries in general - with them being global and all. (Plus the science majors who were introduced via scipy et al.) For a web site, caching, CDNs, and concurrent processing will take you much further than your language choice will (within reason: don't write your web site using DOS batch, please). Without a technical tie in to the language, there is no objective answer to the question. I've been using Python as an actual language on actual projects for years without any nightmares. Products built with Python don’t put any thought into design. the rest of your examples are similar. Much like misplaced brackets in Java/C/C++ would result in a bug. At least the python sites are well engineered and structured, the ruby examples you posted are just fancy bullshit marketing terms on a screen and in a years time will be out of date unlike the python ones which seem timeless imho. I find Python to be absolutely awful. If a few designers and ux people got together for a beautify Smalltalk project, would it have an effect on the number of people who learn it? Try Design for Hackers, Bootstrapping Design, or Step by Step UI Design. I wrote him an email many years ago. Learnpython.org isn’t ugly exactly, it’s just that Try Ruby is so much more polished. I have purchased the Design For Hackers book Jess recommended as well as. Good point. Not so with Python, and the power that it wields without having to torture your brain to understand the basics. As such proposals to add such syntax have never reached agreement. The point is, the question is a subjective one, not an objective one. Even so (but that is debatable), the complexity that I have to go through is just not worth my time because I sure going to forget them anyway and have to start over again. Usually after covering Python and Java there is gonna be some short C/C++ just to ensure everyone is on the same page. Python 3 is awesome. We developers make countless arbitrary choices in everything we do, therefore it’s absolutely impossible to please everyone. Then I learned Java. However, there must be something about the Python community that is contributing to this problem. I think wtf is the colon doing before that word? Dear Python, something has been bothering me for a while. Funny, I never got a reply :) I really was not trying to be rude. It's pretty impressive :p. Cool article, buy super biased. Lambda expressions in Python and other programming languages have their roots in lambda calculus, a model of computation invented by Alonzo Church. Consider the following example: >>> class A(object): ... x = 1 ... >>> … if "puts" is your only example of how ruby is more like a natural language then i despair, because every time I look at ruby code: I have to agree about the general state of Python websites. Your reference to a "lightening talk" was in fact a "lightning talk". And there's good evidence that these constricting snakes, which are native to Asia, are bad news for the Everglades ecosystem. I agree with much of what you say. I hear what you're saying about the dynamic (or, weak) typing. After two hours of missing my dearest c++, i just resorted to call my script.py via the system() function in c++ storing the return value in a textfile... And this one point is just because i love how easily you can import libraries via pip3. Templates let you quickly answer FAQs or store snippets for re-use. Ruby or java or .NET offer nothing of direct significance that will make the site inherently more attractive. Beautiful. In fact I only disagree with the aspect that the lack of good design is fundamentally related to the Python programming language itself. Thanks Karen that's interesting. Heh. This helps … But can we get a co-article named "Dear Ruby, why do you use all of the RAM in my servers, just to run a simple blog?" (in english a colon after a word means that there is a list of related information Cloud hosting: Google App Engine vs. Heroku. Problems with dependencies; the lack of type hinting (since the bastards broke backwards compatibllity BEFORE they added type-hinting, the single most important feature in Python 3) makes Python an unreliable, bug-prone, confusing piece of mess (again, solved in Python 3 the issue with the type-hinting, but since we have legacy Python 2, people refuse to upgrade). My negative view of the language comes from terrible experience of people using it as the an actual language, for actual projects. It's not easy to absorb another's Python work. The left side is nice. If we're not counting "Brainfuck" that is. In python, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to preemptively wrap your data attributes in getters and setters. That would be a good thing for the Python community. Also some devs really hate it :)). Ruby may have tried to be a natural language, but it fails miserably, ends up being so littered with characters in places that are just plain confusing to grok. Java + Gradle (or any of the major build tools) = , "But why even try when there's no real benefit? Maybe its a matter of taste, maybe they like the old school square column/sidebar layout, it could be the background of the user base (python is more science/sys admin based users vs Ruby's more artsy user base) is showing through.... who knows, we could speculate for hours. Whereas most Pythonistas it seems started out as coders and stuck with it. I rather prefer a simple factory that produces fast cars over a fancy factory that produces slow cars. Python deserves better! For the rest, I code an extension in the appropriate language for the task and call it from python :). That's time and money. There are some magic built in global functions, like len() which should be member functions of the relevant classes. It seems likely that consultants for web apps would have nicer web pages than consultants working on, say, scientific problems. Reason, ruby on rails is more commonly used in web environments. Maybe the people you ask miss {curly braces}? Ok, here we go (puts on fire-resistant coveralls) ... For reasons that no one understands, all of the sudden python acquired this HELL NO. I remember when I was learning Java that I had to use upcasting (some of the nio apis, etc). I oftenlty talk about Python as "Easy to learn, hard to master", While I like Python, it has some major flaws which prohibit me from using it. puts "Hello World" I put up with it for a long time. Teams of humans, as opposed to... teams of ducks? Why do you dislike them? But development was rapid. But It. To play with ML algorithms I had to learn a bit of Python. The websites for languages to the best of my knowledge will reflect the particular language design process, code of conduct and thought process for coding in it. Let's compare Rails vs. Django For me, python is like visual basic (or basic) a pigeon language that is missing everything from proper grammar to syntax. Ruby has a nice fast math notation part in it, and its more a follow up to people who used Perl and want a real programing language instead. Regardless, in the most recent version of Python 3.8 has emerged the accepted use of :=, or the ‘walrus operator’ (it indeed does look like a horizontal walrus). Thanks for calling this out - the framing of the article should have been better. I think you may be right that some schools start out with Python because it's trendy, but perhaps there's a reason for that trendiness. Serious people write plain html. I actually have one thing that deeply troubles me with python, from my stubborn must-do-anything(like must prove this theorem kind-of-stuff...) : well, trying to do something really scientific in python without Numpy is slow, and it just seems so nice to actually WRITE those things and see they work then just say: Hi, give me that! The Burmese python is one of the largest snakes in the world. I certainly like it more (god, so much more) than Python. "What's in a name?" kmattern. When I started exploring Python web development frameworks a year ago, exactly this aspect kept me diving me into any one of them! Similarly, overall design and architecture outweigh a language's straight-line efficiency for most classes of projects. The Python community does an awesome job when it comes to providing code, tools, tutorials, guidance for new devs, etc. There are way too many ugly python sites and there are way less ugly ruby sites. is full of colour and whitespace. Importing all methods from a module in Python is a bad idea because of the following reasons. A lot of bad software is written in any language. Python as a language is mostly fine. Python is supposedly a "batteries included" language, but every time I Google for a Python equivalent to a Ruby method that I use all the time, the Stack Overflow answer is always "Just write out the implementation inline, bro!" [Edit: Also check out this lightening talk on attracting designers to your project.] A funny note, even the Wikipedia page for Ruby That is a subjective statement, but I still think it's worthwhile to talk about (especially when coming from a Python developer). The Python results look painfully outdated. Because straight-line execution performance is, for most applications, far less important than architecture and team productivity. So much of it seems to be different just because it can. def func1(a, b, extra = 5): I have written code in 1991 that still runs. Also one other comparison is the www.ruby-lang.com and the www.python.org.